Saturday, March 5, 2011
To the BOE: How do you give out raises when we are in the hole?
The real problem we have here is with the exception of the board members that were newly elected last year, the incumbent board members who are more likely incompetent board members who granted the raises in the last contract even though the school's attorney got up at a board meeting to which I was there to hear this and state " if we do not give raises to the teachers we are looking at a 5 million dollar deficit in the coming years , if we give them a raise we are looking at a 7 million dollar deficit . This is the height of incompetence. How do you give raises out when we are in a multi million dollar hole. I for one will never vot yes for another budget and I will never vote for the board members who have been in there way too many years . Don't let the falling unemployment rate fool you there are still millions of people out of work and more residents in plainview then you think. I have had the opportunity to work from home and I have seen more guys that I know are residents during the day then I have ever seen before .I hope the 2% cap gets passed because the board needs a wake up call . I blame the board more then the union given the fact that they did not have the nerve to stand up against the PCT and say NO we can not afford to give more right now. Very sad
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Bravo. Very true words! But I must say the BOE has been controlled by the PCT for way too long. Angel Cepada is probably the only board member who is not under its spell but unfortunately he gets drowned out by PCT loving strong holds. Why are they so afraid to say no to the PCT? It's not the mob, and then again...
ReplyDeleteEveryone should stop blaming the PCT. They are a business that is trying to make more money and work less hours. That is called capitalism. Start looking in the mirror and ask yourselves how did this happen? The PCT has such a strong hold because previous boards have kowtowed to the PCT and the taxpayers didn't show up at the BOE meetings and make their voices heard. Why else would Plainview teachers work a shorter day then everyone else? How to change the situation? Get off your modular sofas and away from your plasma screens and find out what's going on and why in person. If you do this in numbers they will pay attention.
ReplyDeleteLOL. Very true.
ReplyDeleteThere are 3-4% raises for all administrators in the budget. Seems very generous considering the economy.
ReplyDeleteI got a pamphlet in the mail from The Committee to Save New York. It says "Across Long Island, we're willing to sacrifice so our kids can get ahead...NOT so superintendents can get rich. Over 40% of school superintendents make between a quarter of a million dollars and half a million dollars a year. Governor Cuomo's plan would cut wasteful and abusive school administrative costs, implement a property tax cut and get New Yorkers back to work."
ReplyDeleteThe PCT is partly to blame . They have the shameful nerve to parade around the front of the schools protesting that they are not getting what they want when millions of people are either losing their jobs, homes, and barely surviving. our school tax bill is out of control . That is a fact. As far as getting off the sofa and going to a boe meeting, that is a joke . I used to go to the meetings and the board would just do what they want and not even listen to the residents when it has to do with fiscal responsibility. If the board operated a business like this, the business would of gone bankrupt a long time ago. The PCT leadership is the epitomy of greed to demand raises in this economic depression that we are in. As far as blaming the superintendents. That is just a diversion to get away from the real problem with the Teachers pension plan which is on an unsustainable path that will only lead to a collapse if not reformed and the arcane laws in place that only protect the PCT and other teacher unions in NY from getting rid of the rediculous contract terms that we are stuck with . Tenure for one , and the continue of guarenteed raises even when a new contract is not signed . Just google "the triboro amendment" and that will spell it out.
ReplyDeleteKnow your B.O.E! Angel Cepeda and Amy Pierno are the only Board Members who heard the public's outcry the last contract negotiation. We must show the P.C.T. that the rest of this town will no longer be apathetic, and will turn out to vote this next election. The two incumbents that are up for reelection are Ms. Lieberman and Ms. Bernstien, both have been on the board a long time and have always in favor of the union.
ReplyDeletethe blame lies with 2 factions. The PCT members who live in our district and other teacher's union members living in our district who vote for the PCT candidates. The other faction to blame are those who B&tch and Moan but choose to stay home and not attend board meetings and then don't show up at the polls. There are more non PCT sympathizers than there are pro-PCT voters, unfortunately they don't vote. Until the non PCT voters show up to vote we will continue to be at the mercy of the PCT and their union reps on the BOE. The last contract vote was 5-2, Mr. Cepeda and Mrs. Pierno were the two no votes, let's give them some support and vote like minded board members in this next election.
ReplyDeleteUpon checking the record, Ms pierno did vote against the teacher contract and deserves to be elected. Mrs Leiberman needs to be replaced for her lack of fiscal responsibility. Ms leiberman is also a member of a public union so you know where her fiscal loyalties lie. Mrs leiberman has proven her selflessness when it comes to the needs of the children. The problem is with her regard for the "give the teachers what they want in the contract " mentality that has got to end.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the residents who b&tch and Moan without going to board meetings. There are probably 2 reasons why people do not attend the meetings. The first being that they are working late on their jobs where they do not work under 40 hrs a week to help pay their huge school tax bill. Then there is the second reasons to which I have personally experienced. Going to the board meetings became a waste of my time when the the Boe members prior to the last election would listen to the public participation of residents and just ignore most comments that we spoke of when it came to the fiscal responsibility of our district.They either don't care about giving into the PCT or are totally clueless. Would some of these members who own their own business run their business the way they run the BOE?I dont think so. Corporate America would not tolerate some of the budget games of hide and shift the money around that they play.
ReplyDeleteOnly anonymous people would have the nerve to post such ignorance. My favorite is the one that resents that many PCT members live in POB and have the audacity to vote. Shame on you!
ReplyDeleteShame on you Mr Rosenfeld you are an embarassment for what the labor movement is supposed to represent. History has it that labor unions were supposed to represent workers to gain a days pay for a days work not to bully their employers like you have to constantly give more an more with total disregard for the effects of your greed. Millions of peple unemployed , losing homes , working longer hours for the same or less pay and you have the nerve and audacity to send your members to picket lines in this era of an economic depression. Shame on you!
ReplyDeleteSuzala, you should title this blog as the "Residents who hate their teachers" blog. It's one thing to disagree but the continuous venim written over and over again on this blog is just too much. No, I do not agree with the PCT on every single detail. No, I do not believe all teachers in Plainview live up to my expectations but the overall hatred has gone too far. To generalize about every teacher in this town, it's just not fair.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mr. Rosenfeld that this blog reveals so much ignorance. How about calling him on the telephone? Ask him your questions. Listen to what he has to say. You might be surprised by what you hear. Voice your concerns. He'll listen to you. You may not agree with everything he has to say but talking it out with him certainly has more of a chance of effecting change than this continual spewing forth of all this hate. It also does nothing to improve our school district.
The only reason my posting is anonymous is the simple fear I have for my children's safety and well being.
I am a resident and parent in Plainview. There is no hatred for the teachers in my home. As far as Mr. Rosenfeld is concerned , I would consider calling him a waste of both my time as well as his. I have seen him in action at Board meetings an that of his leadership in the PCT. His concerns only appear to be one. That being the stand of ,"how much money can I get for my members regardless of the financial effects that it will have on the programs in the district, the residents of Plainview and the children. Picketing in front of children and teachers walking around with contract now buttons on in front of our children? pretty sad. I have not heard any ideas of the PCT coming foward with any reasoning other than the shear arrogance that the leader represents of the owed entitlement the he beleives in. My children have good teachers , I think the biggest problems in this district are that of the BOE and the PCT leadership to come up with some real solutions to the problems we face in the district that we will be forced to deal with if they do not start facing them now. The longer we wait the tougher the choices will be .
ReplyDeleteYou want ideas. Read the article I've written over the years. You will find more ideas for the improvement of education in our district than you will ever hear from the people running our district. You might be particularly interested in the things I'v e had to say about the silly way we go about creating the district's budget. My theme is usually that we never stop to think of how we might do things differently and more cost effectively. If you are really interested in ideas, look me up at pobct.org. Cheack out TeacherTalk and my A Teachable Moment blog.
ReplyDeleteMr. Rosenfeld here is a question that i would appreciate your answer on. How would you justify sitting at a BOE meeting and listening to the the school's attorney state that it is projected that we would be in a financial hole for 5 million dollars if we do not give any raises out and we would be in a financial hole of 7 million dollars if we do give out raises for the coming years . At the same meeting you spoke to the board about how much your members should be paid more with raises. How can you justify demanding raises . The problem we have is still the same . The school taxes are out of control and the labor costs continue to skyrocket because of the salaries and underfunded pension that we are paying into. Your members are not to blame and yes my three children do have really good teachers . I know you are supposed to get more for your members but the reality is that our school district has a big financial problem that is not going away . The feds and Albany are not going to be able to bail us out either. That is really the issue that is at hand.
ReplyDeleteAnyone bother to ask at the Board meetings what the proposed raises for SUPERINTENDENT, DEPUTY SUPERINTENDENT, Both Assistant Superintendents, and the principals and asst. principals was going to be? I bet you'd be shocked to hear the BOE proposing between 2 and 5 percent for those people! Don't see anyone getting on them!? Why? Double standard? Discussion....
ReplyDeleteMr. Rosenfeld, I do not doubt that you have good ideas for the district, however your manner in which you respond to the residents who disagree with you is off putting. It is apparent that you are adjusting to this new atmosphere of residents actually questioning where our money is going vs. the history of complacency in the district. You created much animosity in this district with the last contract negotiation by the actions you mandated your members take during that time. Many people are still hurt and angry by it. It is time for some bridge building on your part. If you want people to stop bashing the PCT, then perhaps you need to first stop being defensive and obnoxious when people try to approach you and second show that the PCT is willing to be a partner with the residents and help meet our financial demands instead of worsen them
ReplyDeleteJust FYI, they did clarify at a meeting that Mr. Jonas will not be making more money for being upgraded to Deputy Superintendent- it's just a title.
ReplyDeleteMr. Rosenfeld, the poster above wasn't complaining that the PCT members of this community were voting, the poster was making a point that the other members of this community who outnumber the PCT members DON'T VOTE then complain about the outcome. Make sure you make your phone calls to support Mrs. Lieberman and Mrs. Bernstein so that you keep your majority on the Board of Ed.
ReplyDeleteTo the person who posted on March 23rd at 5:46AM,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more. Is our double dipping superintendent who collects both a pension and a 6 figure salary (both coming from public money) along with Ms. Gierasch (Wasn't there a whole thread on this blog about her uselessness for the district a few months back?) and the countless others really deserving of such high salaries? If you ask me, I'd say leave the teachers alone for now. The board should re-examine administrators' salaries and make changes from there.
Double dipping sounds like the person is doing something wrong. A person who earns a pension and then retires should be able to do what ever they want. The pension has been earned which has nothing to do with them getting a job in the same field. I am no big fan of the superintendent but the reality is if we did not hire hime we would have to pay someone else to do the job . so it does not cost anyone any more to hire a retiree. This is just another diversion from the real issue of the cost of the majority of the district employees. The cost of the administrators pale in comparison to the teachers and custodians
ReplyDeleteC''mon didn't you read the defense about how much Syosset pays their supt in Newsday? Our superintendent should even make more money since he manages a 100 million dollar budget- oops that's Ryan Ruf who also makes more than the governor. The superintendent manages all the employees- oops thats Jonas who also makes more than the governor. The superintendent figures out the curriculum. No thats Gierach. No its not her either. Maybe its the chairpeople. No, not them either, ??? Lets move on to the next category. Curriculum has me stumped. The supt negotiates the contracts -oops thats the lawyers who get paid extra in contract years. what exactly does dempsey do anyway? Anybody? Bueller?
ReplyDeleteBoth administrator and teacher labor contracts need to be reformed .The bottom line is that we need new board members who have a better sense of fiscal responsibility than some of the ones that we have on there now . Get rid of the BOE members who voted for the last teacher contract and you will send a strong message to the rest of the board as well as increasing the chance of real reform and not a continuation of the poltical circus that we have now
ReplyDeleteIt will strike may posters on this blog that the PCT would like to see even more citizens interested in how the district spends its money. Each and every year, we suggest to the Board of Education that that we examine different ways of delivering services that would not negatively impact students and would save money. No one has wanted to have that discussion with us. If people on this blog would like to have that discussion with us, call us.
ReplyDeleteTo add to Mr. Rosenfeld's comment, the teachers have the most contact with students, thus the closest hand in the learning process but they have little to say about how the district provides resources, directs major purchases, appropriates its money. How much money is invested in technology year after year so the district can say it is up to date? Are the purchases made the right ones for the students? No, I am not suggesting to stop investing in technology. What I am saying is that those who are expected to use it have a hand in its planning and utilization.
ReplyDeleteThe Board of Education and the upper level administrators have a minimal understanding of what actually goes on in the classrooms and quite frankly demonstrate little concern for it. The board trusts the superintendent who is very much asleep at the wheel. The other administrators are not concerned with the children. They are resume building so they can advance their careers. Their priority is not the children.
No, I am not a teacher in Plainview. I am an active parent and community member. The teachers' contract/salaries are comparable to most other districts on Long Island. Enough about that already! If you find it so appalling, move off of Long Island. Go somewhere like Florida or Wisconsin. Watch how their educational will deteriorate over the next few years. Less money will go towards teachers' salaries. Your children's education will reflect that. If that is what you want, nobody is forcing you to stay here.
Does anyone on this blog care about instruction in the district, wasteful spending throughout the district unrelated to teachers' salaries, curriculum, anything else?
I agree that this blog reveals a tremendous amount of ignorance in the community. It a shame. It really is.
Mr Rosenfeld
ReplyDeleteif you are that interested in saving the school money then maybe you can explain why you directed your members to picket in front of the school demanding more money when you are fully aware of the financial condition of the school as well as the economic depression like era we are in now as well as the out of control school tax burden on residents.After last years games, it is very difficult to take you seriously. The cost of labor is the biggest cost on the budget that can not be ignored. That is where the issue is . Maybe you can come up with an idea to "examine different ways of delivering services that would not negatively impact students and would save money" as you stated. I am sure the BOE would listen to you then. Especially now when Newsday just reported that PLAINVIEW will LOSE and estimated $1,000,000 in SCHOOL AID nex year.
Talk about ignorance. Telling residents to move off the island if they do not like it is just as ignorant. Part of the problem is two-fold. on one side you have PCT leadership who talks about the district saving money except when it comes to labor costs that keep skyrocketing with unreasonable demands in an economy so bad where people are working longer for the same or less and their the luck ones who still have jobs. Then you got the other side which is the BOE who either lacks the courage to go up against the PCT or lacks the ability to show some fiscal responsibility for the school budget. years ago the BOE would claim "look at the home values, the taxes are worth it". That theory died real fast now what ?
ReplyDeleteIf you find teachers' contracts/salaries on Long Island to be so disturbing, going to an area of the country where the common practice here is different is certainly something to consider. Just be careful where you look. In places where teachers are devalued (evidenced in both their contracts and salaries), schools are simply not as good as they are throughout Long Island with the exception of very few districts. They are not able to attract and keep the best qualified educators in many states. The deal teachers get is inferior and thus the schools and so too are the schools. Can anyone on this blog provide the name of a strong school system, here or anywhere else whose teachers' have an inferior contract to any standard contract on Long Island but achieve a higher outcome?
ReplyDeleteThe teachers' salaries in Plainview are comparable to other comparable districts, actually considerably lower than other incomparable districts whose test scores and property values are also lower. Levittown is one example of this.
To complain endlessly on this blog about the teachers' contract without citing factual proof of educational systems in this country can work better and achieve similar (or better) results is simply teacher/union bashing and ignorance.
To the last poster. You make it seem as though Long Island has the best school system in the country. Yes we do have good schools and good teachers but that does not justify our school tax bills. As far as around the country where teachers are devalued(as you claim) goes. If you look at the college enrollment in Harvard, Yale,UCLA and alot of other ivy league schools you would probably notice that there is no majority of students from NY or Long island there. This should not be turned into a personal war of residents versus teachers because it is not. The reality is that the budgets and school tax bills on Long Island are out of control. That is a fact. Lets look at the reality(facts) . According to Newsday , Plainview will lose a million dollars in School aid next Year. TRS(teachers retirement system) along with other NY public pensions are underfunded by Billions of dollars. The teachers are not to blame for that either. The politicians from both parties are.Another fact ,in last sunday's newsday ther was a big story on the schools in Long Island and our school attorney was quoted in the newspaper stating that the "Triboro Amendment" amounted to a rigged bargaining system that unfairly gives the public unions the advantage when bargaing labor contracts. Maybe you can provide some facts about the states that can not get qualified teachers . Have you personally seen this , because I do alot of reading from alot of different sources and I have not seen any stories on states that are desperate for teachers.
ReplyDeleteI hold three Ivy League degrees, one in the area of Educational Administration and Supervision. As far as any state being over represented at any fine universities, not only the Ivy Leagues, a major component of their admissions process is to maintain a geographical balance of students so no majority exists from any one place. I therefore would not use that as a benchmark of how strong Long Island school districts are.
ReplyDeleteAs far as teacher shortages go, they exist all over the country. My professional experience took place primarily in Maryland and New York but my doctoral research brought me into school systems nationwide, although not so much out west. I visited and conducted comprehensive fiscal reviews of school systems in Florida, North Carolina, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Illinois (Chicago only), Missouri (St Louis only) and Texas. I also did further research in Louisiana, Oregon (briefly) and Iowa. Up until the recession hit, teacher shortages were reported on throughout most urban areas and in many states across the board, suburban, rurual and urban. Once the recession hit, class sizes in some area nearly doubled with some as high as 35-40 students. If class sizes are increased, ridiculously so, then the teacher shortage is no longer considered a shortage.
If you want facts about states that cannot get qualified teachers, name any state from my list above and I will be happy to provide you with or direct you to their current data reports. Remember also that certification requirements vary from state to state and the financial incentives for educators to advance their professional knowledge is not worth the cost in many states so the teachers often do not go beyond the master's degress, if that's even a requirement at all.
I agree that our tax bills are through the roof. Teachers have to pay them also. If we want qualified teachers with multiple professional degrees/credits way beyond the master's degree, they have to be paid what they're worth. With similar credentials in the private sector, they'd earn much more.
Take a look at the annual publication of the nationwide teacher shortage areas. You can find it on the website of the U.S. Department of Education. Teach for America is an organization that was formed to address the problem. You might find some interesting information on their website as well, although I personally am not familiar with it.
ReplyDeleteAs a rule, admissions policies in all of the major private universities (Ivy League and otherwise) take geographics into their acceptance decisions so no one state/area is more represented than any other. Most of their admissions prospectives mention this. What you might find in these institutions is a large percentage of students from either private schools or solid public school systems where the teachers are well paid with solid contracts. Incidentally, why do you mention UCLA? I am sure it is a wonderful state school but for the purpose of making a point, to put it with Harvard and Yale? Interesting. I'll have to take another look at it.
As far as public pensions in New York are concerned, teachers pay into them, not sure how it works with other state employees. The state government borrowed from the pension fund and now are scapegoating teachers for their inability to pay back the system. According to Assemblyman Lavine in a personal letter I received from him, the deficit in educational funding in New York could be eradicated if the huge tax breaks enjoyed by the state's millionaires were modified. I am glad to see you realize teachers are not at fault on this one.
Newspapers, particularly Newsday, misquote people all the time so I cannot read too much into our school attorney's statement although I will say that a school district attorney may very well be enjoying the tax breaks referred to by Assemblyman Lavine so the statement might be more self-serving than anything else.
If you've read this far, let me make one more point. Whether we agree or not, the fact that you posted your thoughts to open up a diaglogue about this without the continuous complaining like so many on this blog is commendable.
My intentions are not to complain and there was no disrespect intended in the last response . As I have stated before this is not intended to bash teachers. I happen to like my three children's teachers this year . I come from a union family. I have multiple degrees my self in which one of them happens to be in Industrial Labor Relations, so I am well read on the history and intentions of the labor movement as well as the beating that we are taking all over the country with regard to Wisconsin which is responsible for igniting the so called "fire". My very point was from the beginning aimed more at the Board of Ed who I consider fiscally irresponsible. I have been to board meetings for years and still go. Nothing has changed with the answers you get when ever it comes to questions over finances. I think if we had a more fiscally responsible board we might have a better chance making some advances. As far as the pensions in NY go . I have resaerched this my self and according to what I have read This is the main problem: The rate of return for the pension plan was pegged at 8% up until last year when Dinapoli changed the rate to 7.5%. the actual return on the pension plan has been for the last several years in the neighborhood of 3.5 to 4%. If this was a private pension plan the administrators would of been arrested on fraud charges. But the state polticians get away with it. The other issue is that the state pension plan does not adhere to the GAAP principles(generally accepted accounting principles)like all other pension plans are required to do . That means they can play around with the numbers any way they please. I can only hope that residents who choose not to get involved will at least read some of this blog, attepmt to become informed on these issues and vote in May
ReplyDeleteA major challenge to the financing of Plainview's school system is the lack of a strong industrial tax base. This puts most of the burden of school taxes on the homeowners. There are districts on Long Island with lower school taxes that actually pay their teachers more.
ReplyDeleteAre you familiar with the benefits state senators have arranged for themselves? There is corruption all over the state. There are so many areas of the public sector that need modifications. I completely agree that Wisconsin (and Florida too) have opened up a can of worms. It is not fair that teachers and their pensions are being scrutinized almost exclusively. What about the pensions of police officers and the thousands of other public employees in this state? Why does it seem like teachers are the only public employees being taken to task in this terrible economy?
It has been my experience that boards of education are run by lay people who volunteer their time for various reasons. They win their positions by how many votes they can get which can be a result of many factors, often having little to do with how much they actually know about running a school system. Ultimately the board becomes the superintendent's rubber stamp. Rarely do we see board members in Plainview really questioning the administrators' decisions. The fiasco in Roslyn a few years ago is a solid example of this. For me, I would not call the board "fiscally irresponsible." In my view, they are just ignorant to what is really going on. Part of that might be related to finances but do not disregard their hand in every other area of the school system including instruction which, at least for me, is more important than anything money can pay for.
Let us come together on one point that I hope many residents will consider. For what we are paying in taxes, our children could be getting so much more. Our school district could be so much better. We might disagree on what exactly the shortcomings are but nobody can argue that the significant improvements that can and should be made.
Hi Suzala,
ReplyDeletePlease post as new thread.
Isn't the office staff at POBMS supposed to work until 4PM? If so, they are stealing time, walking out of the building before 4PM. Has anyone else had the pleasure of calling at 3:50, being put on hold and then calling from another phone, only to be told they are gone?
I recently drove there to speak to someone in person at about 3:50, only to find them leaving en masse. Civil service at it's "finest" I guess..
Can someone who knows please list the percentage amount of raises which each administrator (names included) will be receiving this September? Is it true that Ruff will be getting a 10% increase in salary this fall?What about Jonas? Gierasch? Dempsey?
ReplyDeletePlease inform us ASAP
We do not need teachers with multiple degrees at the public school level. Stop paying teachers for credits above their masters. There is no teaching shortage. There are probably 1000 applicants for every teaching job in POB. Let the state set teachers salaries. I am a NYC teacher and know most of the discussions above are a farce.
ReplyDelete