Suzala, can you start a new thread with this? By the way, thank you so much for running this blog.
Can we start a thread on this blog on how we can combat the bullying problem? As a community we need to come together on this. Yes, I know there have been meetings, programs, etc. Not everyone can get out to these things. Let's kick around some strategies that have worked for us.
As an educator myself, I've done quite a bit of research on this topic. Yes, I will share much of what I've come up with but I'd like to get a sense of what exactly the perceived problems are. This is an extremely deep issue that I will offer many ideas on. I would like some specifics first.
Anyone interested in a discussion?
Ed's note: Glad I can help- sz
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Let's hold the board accountable for not keeping our children safe...why a 13 year old had to leave POB after years of physical and verbal abuse is beyond me. The boy who did it hasn't been repremanded. Nobody cared enough about this child (****)too. There needs to be state mandated parenting courses and anger management courses for children and parents..like dwi courses!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteEd's note: (^^^) indicates libel text removed.
There is an article in this Sunday's Newsday about Governor Paterson introducing legislation that requires school officials to post a bullying hotline in school hallways.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the comments so far. Can anyone offer any specifics on what was happening when (grade level, time of year, etc) and where (school bus, cafeteria, playground, classroom, hallway, gym, assemblies, etc)? Also, when exactly did it start? What, if any, discussions took place between school officials and parents? Did any intervention with the students take place?
ReplyDeleteIf I don't get any specifics over the next two-three days, I'll just start posting my recommendations. We'll see if that's helpful and then take the discussion from there.
There is a new bullying pamphlet written by both middle schools which can be read at the POB school website. If there is any credibility to this pamphlet (haven't seen any hard copy, just on line), then why is 13 yr old (the victim) the one forced to leave POB? Why publish a bullying pamphlet educating the community? Maybe admin. and Bd need educating. Why is the victim being condemned and not the bully? Hypocrisy?
ReplyDeleteAt tonight's Board of Ed meeting they talked about a middle school Bullying and Cyberbullying Newsletter that is on the district website. It is going to sent to parents of incoming 5th graders also. Here is the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pob.k12.ny.us/Bullying_and_Cyberbullying_Newsletter.pdf
You don't need a bullying hotline. That would be pointless. Kids should be encouraged to tell an adult and if they cannot --or if nothing changes--then it is up to the parents to go to the school, meet with staff and DEMAND that something be done.
ReplyDeleteSee post:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.antonnews.com/plainviewoldbethpageherald/news/8682-senator-hannon-talks-to-mattlin-students-about-cyber-bullying.html
I took a look at the bullying newsletter. It is definitely worthwhile. I like the fact that all incoming middle school families will receive one. No question it brings ups some great points.
ReplyDeleteThe bullying problem, while at its peak in middle school, needs to be addressed at all grade levels in age/grade appropriate ways from kindergarten all the way up through high school. Ongoing training of all staff members is integral to any successful anti-bullying policy within a school district.
Bullying starts small and young. As the behavior is tolerated and in some ways, albeit oftentimes unknowingly, encouraged and/or modeled by adult behavior, from home or in school,it grows. It needs to be dealt with long before the students step foot into a middle school.
Can bullying be completely eradicated from every child's life? Maybe, maybe not. What we CAN do is develop a strong starting point that teaches early on what is and is not acceptable.
I believe you are being naive. I have worked in 6 schools over the last 18 years. Bullying often takes place when there are NO adults around. In the hallway, at the water fountain, while waiting for a bus, while waiting for the class to officially start while the teacher is talking to someone.....you cannot expect teachers to always be aware of it
ReplyDeleteHow about when a teacher bullies students . This may not happen as much as kids bullying kids but it does happen and has happened in one of our middle schools and the school administration did nothing about it . Mainly because the union contract protects the teacher regardless of most circumstances. The teacher just gets moved to a different school. Way to go BOE
ReplyDeleteTo the individual who used the term "naive," I am confused as to which post you were referring to. I did not notice anything posted about expecting teachers to "always be aware of it" as you wrote. This discussion is not about assigning blame to teachers or anybody else. It's about coming up with solutions to combat an ever growing problem, not just in Plainview but all over the country.
ReplyDeleteTeachers being effectively trained to deal with the bullying problem deals with creating a school wide culture that starts within the classroom while under direct teacher supervision. If such behavior is tolerated there, which oftentimes it is (albeit unknowingly), students are sent the message that it is acceptable. It is then brought to other unsupervised areas. While this is only one component of the complexities of the bullying problem in schools, it is nonetheless an area that warrants mention.
Also, how school officials deal with bullying issues when it is brought to their attention is an area that warrants attention because oftentimes it is not effectively dealt with.
What education do our children receive, kindergarten thru high school, that advises appropriate behavior for when they encounter bullying as victim or as bystander?
Incidentally, "while waiting for the class to officially start while the teacher is talking to someone" weakens your argument. Once the students walk into the room, the teacher is responsible for them. While it was not my intention to direct this thread in this direction, I will say that effective classroom management is one component to a successful bully prevention program. If you've "worked in 6 schools over the last 18 years," surely you must have had some training in this area. The only thing I can surmise is that you are not a professional educator. Otherwise you would know better.
As an educator and educational researcher myself, I have done extensive research in this area through graduate classes, workshops and scholarly contacts. I've written both papers and articles on the subject, conducted numerous teacher training seminars and parent workshops, advised student teachers, etc. Do I have all the answers and solutions? Nobody does.
In the field of educational research, this is still a relatively new issue being looked at. It is a complex issue that runs much deeper than many had realized even in the recent past. One statement that no educator has ever disputed in anything I've ever read, discussed or observed is that bullying is a school problem and requires a comprehensive approach by all school officials.
Bullying also happens in the classroom when the the teacher is present and chooses to ignore it. How about in the gym when the weak kids are picked on and the gym teacher does not see it or ignores it because some think thats just what kids do when playing sports
ReplyDeleteNew York State teaching certification requirements include a course in the identification and reporting of child abuse as sadly this is a major problem in society. The state of Maryland requires a state approved course in cultural diversity for all educators in attempt to deal with racism, another major challenge in America. While I cannot give specifics right now, these are not the only two states to maintain such requirements.
ReplyDeleteBullying has become a major problem in our schools, not just Plainview, but nationwide. Teacher training on the identification of and procedures for dealing with bullying will someday be instituted as a requirement throughout the country.
Classroom management is a major component of any school of education's pre-teacher training program. Every teacher learns that classroom expectations are established within the first two weeks of school. These expectations include classroom procedures for when the unexpected happens such as a call from the office, someone entering the room for whatever reason, emergencies, interruptions, etc.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of class, students should have a procedure to follow. Most middle school management experts agree that a "Do now" assignment is best for students as they walk into the room. It focuses students on the day's lesson, minimizes time off task and gives the teacher the opportunity to take care of "business" such as taking attendance and other various "beginning of class" interruptions that often take place. When students are held accountable for their "Do now" assignments, the bullying issue at the start of class is minimized although perhaps not completely eradicated. Proper training on the identification of "at-risk" bullying and victim behaviors will effect classroom placements and seating arrangements. This is yet again another "minimizer" of the problem within the classroom setting. Also, classroom contracts that outline curriculum, expectations and grading procedures given to secondary students (and their parents) at the beginning of the year should include not only homework and grading procedures but all classroom expectations, bullying being one of them, which is again another reminder of the code of conduct that needs to be appropriately monitored and enforced.
Waiting for a bus at the bus stop is a problem. That gets into the area of where the school's responsibility and liability come into question. Not sure on that one. If it's waiting for a bus while on school grounds, better supervision (not necessarily by teachers) is necessary. The same applies to hallways, bathrooms and water fountains. In most effective secondary schools hall monitors are placed by bathrooms/water fountains. Oftentimes students are required to sign in and out of the bathrooms. Although this was originally meant to curtail drug and/or grafitti issues, the lack of anonymity in these areas does help the bullying issue.
I would say about two or three times a year, my principal gets on the loud speaker and in her, no nonsense voice, discusses and defines the bullying issue. While again, this is only one part of a major problem, it provides a starting point that reminds students that bullying is wrong.
In the middle school I teach in, we have cameras strategically located around the building, mostly by outside doors to monitor the safety of who is coming into the building. All buses have continuous video surveillance as do outside areas of school property. Many districts in the country have taken these and other measures which curtail at least the "safety" dangers of bullying.
So where does all this leave us? Bullying is a school problem that needs to be effectively dealt with by the school. The few bullying concerns my children have had in this district have been handled to my satisfaction. This thread is not meant to blame or complain about anyone in the school district, rather it's a way people can gain a better understanding of the issue and seek advice on how to deal with the problem.
I agree that these kids know when they can get away with what they want to do and not get caught. They are good at taking advantage of situations. They need more staff at rec that are going to be more active and careful watchers, especially with kids that have already been reported.
ReplyDeleteRecess, lunch time and bus rides are certainly areas that warrant effective staff training on how to effectively deal with bullying. Gym locker rooms can also be problematic. Where many anti-bullyng programs start is in providing appropriate education to the students, effectively training staff, and taking every possible measure to curtail and hopefully eliminate it while under direct professional supervision. Peer mediation programs are another means by which to curtail the situation.
ReplyDeleteThe educator's role in the bullying problem is an area that has not received much attention in the world of educational research.
ReplyDeleteKnowingly bullying a child is a form of abuse.
What's not clear to many in the profession are the many subtle ways in which an educator can tolerate, incite and sometimes even encourage bullying in the classroom and elsewhere. A really wonderful professor in my graduate school once told us the following. "Be careful with humor. You can destroy people with it." No question, many educators do not realize the ramifications of what they think is harmless kidding around.
Also, public reprimands of children, no matter how deserved the teacher believes them to be, send a message that singling each other out is acceptable. This includes not only pointing behavioral issues but also teacher reactions to student responses, questions, differences, etc.
Many teachers do not realize the influence they have on students. In effective training workshops, educators are offered role plays of various situations and asked to discuss them at different angles. I've often heard teachers say that they had no idea the effects of their words.
The mileage club at Stratford is an example of how an educator can cause tension between students that can lead to various forms of bullying. Has anyone else noticed this?
ReplyDeleteNo dark sarcasm in the classroom
ReplyDeleteHey teacher
Leave those kids alone
Pink Floyd, 1979
I thought the mileage club was a good thing and the kids liked trading the feet. How did this lead to bullying?
ReplyDeleteThe teacher who runs the mileage club often uses tactics to scare the kids. My children are terrified that he's going to rip up their mileage club cards if they miscount their laps around the track. No doubt not all children are honest but this is an inappropriate way to deal with it. He's using a scare tactic that has an adverse effect on good kids in putting too much pressure on them.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't model a good attitude about the whole thing. It gets way too competitive at such a young age. There have been a few situations that I've been made aware of in which children dictate to each other when they can and cannot participate in the mileage club. If the "bully" is absent, his/her friends are not "allowed" to run as they might earn more feet and that wouldn't be "fair" to the "bully" who has to stay on top.
Also, the "I've got more feet than you so I'm a better runner than you" can get a bit out of hand.
The teacher could do a better job of rewarding the achievers while at the same time creating an accepting environment for those who might be less athletic but are trying their best. He doesn't realize the pressure he's putting on the little ones.
a majority of the bullying takes place online and yet I didn't see any posts making reference to that. to be sure there is physical bullying but i question the need to mention teacher bullying in a thread devoted to discussing ways to help children. stay focused on a real problem and lets not manufacture complaints that are totally unfounded.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/24/nyregion/24bully.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y
ReplyDeleteToday's New York Times: Anti Bullying Bill will go before the Governor
the teacher bullying is not an unfounded complaint. There is a teacher in the middle school that gets moved from one school to another because colleagues do not even like them. Even with complaints , nothing happens to the teacher. This is not unfounded but a fact.How can this not be helping children. Do some research and you will be amazed at the number of children who are bullied by teachers. This does happen and the school can not do anything because of the protection that teachers have. This is a real problem along with teachers texting in class, receiving and making phone calls,etc
ReplyDeleteThis thread is meant to discuss the issue of bullying, educate and inform community members about ways in which it can be handled and provide a forum for the topic where what already exists in our schools to combat this problem are shared as well as ways we can possibly effect changed within the current system. With the ultimate goal of keeping our children safe physically, emotionally, academically, etc, the complexities of the issue are clearly becoming evident in all threads posted.
ReplyDeleteTo the post from 9:39. how is this bullying?
ReplyDeleteLet's keep this discussion focused exclusively on the issue of bullying. While I've already pointed out that educators do play a major role in the bullying issue, whether it be in how they deal with it and sometimes even what their involvement is with it (oftentimes unintentionally), I'd prefer to avoid hearsay on this thread. Speculating on someone's confidential professional file, which is the only source of reliable information on reasons for teacher transfers, takes the conversation away from its original purpose.
ReplyDeleteIn the spirit of free speech, if there exists a specific teacher in a specific school whose actions are inappropriate and anyone wishes to discuss it, perhaps another thread can be started for it.
With that said, if the educator's role in the bullying problem is a source of concern to those of you reading this, we can certainly take this thread in that direction. Let's get some specifics on what exactly has happened and go from there.
How is this bullying?
ReplyDeletewhen a teacher harasses, intimidates,embarrasses, bullies,picks on, leaves out, ostricizes,and ignores a student. That is Bullying. As stated earlier ,do some research on the internet and you will see. This is probably a very rare occurrence in POB compared to student bullying. Like any type of bullying , even just one incedent is not acceptable.
To the individual who brought up the subject of online bullying. Thank you. You're absolutely correct. A dangerous and new form of bullying is growing through the use of technology. This includes online, cellphones, texting, etc.
ReplyDeleteHas the school district provided any education in this area to staff, parents or students? If it hasn't, this is certainly something that should be addressed.
Why don't we start with the parents? I see more bullying among parents than I do the children.
ReplyDeleteThe children in the Kindergarten Center have already begun learning about bullying, both at school and on the internet. Next year the 1st graders participate in the Bully Frog program which has been shown in the past to be successful. There are also workshop ideas that are sent home to the parents so they can continue to work on it with their children.
ReplyDeleteThere was also the district wide cyber bullying seminar that was held this year. It was widely publicized and many parents took advantage of the opportunity to go and bring their children to it.
This is one area that the Plainview Board of Ed has been making an effort in.
Personally I find the problems are with the parents. I see parents bullying one another all the time. It needs to begin with us.
My kids teacher puts all the quiet kids and ESL kids on the right side of the room and the noisemakers and popular kids on the left side (in middle school). My kid feels like he is in the "ignored" group. He feels like he is "invisible" and this teacher never, ever calls on him even if his hand is up. Group bullying by a teacher. In another class, his other teacher on the team really involves him in the class and even though he is quiet, he tells me she calls on him whenever he has his hand up. He really likes her class and this teacher knows about self-esteem. The teacher has a huge influence.
ReplyDeleteBully frog is an excellent program. Thank you for sharing some of what's been going on in the district so far.
ReplyDeleteBullying can often be learned behavior with the most powerful influences coming from home. Adult bullying is certainly a problem. With a strong and enforced code of conduct along with educational programs on the subject for students and parents, ongoing staff development and an overall culture that rejects bullying, we hope to minimize and hopefully eradicate the problem so that students are safe from it in our schools. What parents are modeling at home can be problematic, no question.
Seating arrangements that segregate and/or publicize students' strengths and weaknesses, while not directly bullying, may be sending a message to the students that it's acceptable to categorize each other.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if anyone has discussed this with the teacher. What would she explain as her reasons for this? Sometimes just bringing it their attention, gets them to think twice about and make improvements. It's possible that the practice is coming from inexperience on effective classroom management.
On that one, parents may need to collectively bring it to the school's attention. When it's one parent expressing concerns, not much happens. When it's a group of parents contacting the administration, the outcome tends to be better. Let's hope I'm right on that one.
Yes, the adults, with teachers at the lead, set the climate in the building. They can make or break any student's self-esteem.
Will Bullyfrog be done with ALL 1st graders? They've had it at Parkway but I don't think they did it at every elementary school in our district. Sometimes programs only get to certain kids at certain schools and this is very important and should be district-wide.
ReplyDeleteA bully prevention program must be district wide consistently throughout all schools at all levels in order to be effective. Thanks for pointing that out.
ReplyDeleteCheck out www.bullyfrog.com
ReplyDeleteI find it very difficult to get a group of parents to approach admin to effect change. It seems so many in Plainview want to stay anonymous and just complain among themselves. Not much can change if people just agree but do nothing. It is easy to give up when you are just one voice.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Ginger Lieberman on the Board of Ed?
ReplyDeleteFrom the Bully frog website: About us:
Roni Benson & Ginger Lieberman
Roni Benson and Ginger Lieberman are co-directors of LIPEN, a Professional Education Network, in New York. They have been conducting workshops for school staff, students and parents for the past 15 years. Their newest workshop is on Cyberbullying and Internet Safety.
Roni and Ginger are co-authors of Bully Frog, winner of the 2004 National Legacy Book Award. Bully Frog is the first in a series of children’s books on character education. Their second book, Forlorn Frog’s Fantastic Valentine’s Day continues with emphasis on girl bullying, social or relational aggression.
National and international radio and television programs turn to them as experts on parenting and youth related issues. They have been featured on NBC, ABC , CBS and News 12 television as experts on the topic of bullying and cyberbullying. Recently, they were featured on an ABC special on Cyberbullying.
Roni is a trustee of the Nassau County Youth Board and Ginger served as Child Care Commissioner of the Nassau County Legislature. Roni and Ginger are currently working in partnership with the Graduate School for Education and Psychology at Touro College in NYC, to certify teachers and graduate students in the School of Education in the area of Violence Prevention and Bullying.
They have wide-ranging experience as keynote speakers, workshop leaders and facilitators at regional and national educational conferences, workshops and symposia. They have received recognition from the members of the United States Senate and Congress as well as members of the New York State Senate and Assembly.
To the individual who commented on the lack of parental involvement in directly dealing with issues,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The community could do much more. I can also understand that oftentimes people who have made efforts have gotten them nowhere and in some cases, made the situation worse. That could account for some of the inertia.
To the individual who provided us with bios for Roni Benson and Ginger Lieberman,
ReplyDeleteWe're lucky to have them here.
Thanks for informing us that we have national experts on bullying. I am sure they are aware of what is going on in our middle school? Shouldn't we hear more from them in our community? How about a library presentation? Not just Parkway and K Center, but ALL schools - even the middle and high - need to role play bullying scenarios and teach the bystanders what their role is (just as John Halligan described).
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like much of the anti-bullying campaign here in Plainview focuses on educating the students and parents. This is certainly a huge step in the right direction. In order for it to be fully effective, staff develpment on the issue is necessary as is a district protocol for how it should be handled. Bully prevention is great but I've not yet seen anyone on this blog comment on any disciplinary plans of action for bullying. Can anyone give us detais on this?
ReplyDeleteThe Bullyfrog website says it costs $1500 a day. Can the district spend money on something that a member of the Board of Ed would benefit financially?
ReplyDeleteBringing in programs to educate students is great but what concerns me is that nobody has mentioned any district wide plan of action for how bullying is handled. The adults set the climate in each building. What has been institutionalized to maintain a culture of acceptance and tolerance? How is bullying addressed as it happens on the small scale before it grows into the larger scale? When bullying is brought to the attention of staff members, how are they expected to investigate, mediate and so forth? Awareness and education is great but there has to be more. Otherwise, the district is only giving lip service to the problem.
ReplyDeleteI have been in the Plainview school district for 14 years. My son just graduated middle school. Alot of the problems stem from us not being one district in policy. Each school is run by its own principal, etc. as they see fit. I know this for a fact because my son was bullied. A particular altercation happened with a student from the other middle school. My son was kneed in the groin so he retaliated with a punch to the other students face. Neither student was hurt but my son's punishment was worse than the other student who started it because his principal felt that being kneed in the groin was less severe than being punched in the face.
ReplyDeleteIt took me 2 phone calls and a not so nice letter to the superintendent for someone to contact me about this. It was a waste of time because it didn't change a thing.
We are one school district and we should all be following one set of rules, all the time, not by how they feel that day.
A few questions for the parent who posted about an altercation between two students from different buildings. I have some ideas for you on how you or others might handle this sort of situation in the future (or now if you deem it necessary). There are a few missing pieces to the puzzle that would be helpful in order to be most effective.
ReplyDelete1. Where did this altercation take place that it was between two students from different buildings?
2. Were you and the other parent contacted about the incident on the day it took place?
3. Were the punishments based on what staff members actually saw or on what they were told by students (those involved or bystanders)? To what extent was an investigation made as to the dynamics of the conflict?
4. How much of the altercation did the staff members responsible for supervision at the time see of it? What measures did they take, if possible, to calm things down before the situation became physical?
5. Did your son ever have any interaction with this other student in the past? Had there existed tension between them? If not, what was it that escalated the situation to physical violence?
6. From what you described, it sounds like your child was physically attacked. Responding with force is, as you know, against the school's code of conduct. What strategies or suggestions did the school provide your son with on how to handle such attacks in the future? What measures are they taking to see that your child is separated from this child in the future so as to ensure his safety?
7. Did you inform the school that although you recognize responding physically was a mistake, your child was still attacked and you are thus worried about his safety? If so, what measures are they taking to ensure his safety?
Yes, I agree uniformity of disciplinary procedures is necessary throughout the district. My primary concern over what you described is your child's safety as it sounds, as I've said before, that he was physically attacked.
One of the questions that is never talked about is why do kids bully? One of the biggest reasons I have seen is that it stems from the parents. I know plenty of children in Plainview that are bullies,rude, dress inappropriatley, especially act horribly with unsportsmanship like behavior during sports. I look at the parents and I see why. Because they are parents who are rude,obnoxious, judgemental, and prejudice against any child that is either not like theirs or that they consider the child "not good enough to be with their child". That is the real problem. And Plainview is not the only place that this happens. Parents it is time to wake up and look at yourself in the mirror. Most will not because of their self serving arrogance.Think about how your child treats another child and ask yourself if you would like being treated like that.
ReplyDeleteTo the person whohad their son bullied . Sorry to hear that.I would suggest you talk to a lawyer and maybe that will wake up the district. As far as Ginger leiberman goes . She gets all my respect for being an advocate for anti bullying. I just hope when the next election for her seat comes up that she becomes a consultant for the school and not a board member. She is one of the board members who has become as clueless as some other members when it comes to fiscal responsibility and the over compensated teachers we have . As much as I agree with her anti bullying stand , she will never get my vote again.
ReplyDeleteWhat we need is a new thread on PARENTAL BEHAVIOR
ReplyDeletebullying maybe in the schools but the bullying is taught and fermented at home most likely by the parent who spends most of the time with the children. I can not even count the number of times I have passed a Plainview parent in the stores or the schools and these parents who have known me along time walk past as if I am a stranger. Why because they think their children will soon be headed off to the NBA,NFL, or the MLB. The arrogance of these parents is just ubeleivable . This is where the arrogance ,rude behavior, pre judging of other children starts. I also know plenty of parents who agree with me in saying that these are the parents who live their lives through their children. They just think they are better than everyone else. This is where the real problem starts by parents teaching their kids to be snobby self serving kids who form clicks and decide who should and should not be with them. And if your not with them then they treat you like an alien.
I would like to respond to the June 25 6:32.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with this. Children are segregated in classrooms in our district,especially in our collaborative classes. Both teachers and parents need to start by not seperating and stereotyping children by their academic needs or anything else. "Our children are what they learn and see" Especially at home. My daughter just graduated from Middle School. She is a beautiful normal teenager but has a learning disability that puts her in the collaborative class whereby throughout middle school, she has been constantly separated and classified her in the classes by the educators. This creates the perfect scenario for bullying. Some of the risidual effects to my daughter of this are: On a social level, she has been silently "bullied" by being left out of things, not be invited to parties and just being viewed as "Having a 3rd eye":by both her peers and other parents .This is TRUE Bullying by definition.Recently a good friend of mine's daughter(who is friends with my daughter) had a graduation party and did not bother to invite my daughter to the party. They actually hid the fact that they were having a party from my daughter and myself. She actually heard through another friend about the party. She did not tell me about this for almost a week. I knew something was up on graduation day. It was the same old story from the girl when confronted "too many people". This is a really good so called "friend" of mine . So if you want to know where some of the behaviors come from, it comes from the home. All the education and seminars in the world do not teach people their values! Who was the adult in this ?
Some Parents just don't get it....
Let's keep this discussion strictly on the bullying issue. Suzala, if someone posts something regarding board members, voting, teacher contracts, anything that takes the conversation in another direction, can you please post it on another thread?
ReplyDeleteEveryone should feel free to voice whatever they wish. Let's just stick to the one subject on this particular thread.
To the person who posted about why kids bully, thank you for bringing this up.
ReplyDeleteYes, bullying is often learned behavior. I agree that parents have a greater influence on their chidren than anybody else.
I would like to add that bullying can be picked up in the home in a multitude of ways including, but not limited to, parents bullying their own children, one parent bullying the other, older siblings bullying younger ones with parents either ignoring or not effectively dealing with it, bullying from other family members, or family members (including parents) simply partaking of bullying behavior towards other people as well. This would encompass the attitude of exclusivity amongst some residents here, not interacting with those deemed different from or beneath themselves.
Teachers in school and elsewhere, coaches, babysitters, even clergy may also contribute to the bullying problem in both positive and negative ways.
In essence, bullying is a problem within society. There are many factors to the problem we'll never really have control over. What we can take initiative on is in how it is dealt with within our school district. At the very least, our children should be safe from it there.
To the parent who shared with us about her/his daughter's experience graduating from middle school, thank you for having the courage to post as you did.
ReplyDeleteThere is a poem I once read on the wall of a colleague's classroom that you might want to share with your daughter. While it references many "differences" children have to deal with growing up, it raises a point she might find comforting.
It is as follows. Regretfully, I do not know the author.
"Here's to the kids who are different,
The ones they call crazy or dumb,
The ones who don't fit with the guts and the grit,
Who dance to a different drum.
Here's to the kids who are different,
The ones who just never get A's,
The ones who have ears twice the size of their peers,
And noses that go on for days,
Here's to the kids who are different,
The ones with the mischievous streak,
For when they have grown as history's shown,
It's their difference that makes them unique."
Here's some more for the parent whose daughter was excluded from a middle school graduation party. Consider the following.
ReplyDelete1. Your daughter will be starting high school in the fall. There will be a much larger social pool to draw from. The "popularity" of middle school will change in many ways. If she gets involved in various school activities, she'll get to know students across grade levels, something that's not as easy to do in middle school. She WILL meet other students to befriend, some with similar experiences, some with different memories of being excluded. It may not happen overnight but more doors will open up for her. Encourage her to join the choir and whatever clubs are popular among the college bound/serious students.
2. The "good friend" of yours whose daughter excluded your daughter from the graduation party is NOT your true friend. Yes, there are many self-involved/insensitive people in Plainview. It's not everyone. This is a very overpopulated area. There ARE lovely people here. You just have to look a little harder to find them. I wouldn't have a major falling out with this "friend." If it were me, I'd just find someone else to socialize with. What she allowed was very mean spirited. I don't know you but you sound like a lovely caring parent who would be most comfortable with other NICE people.
3. Above all else, please consider the following.
A LEARNING DISABILITY DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOMEONE IS NOT SMART, TALENTED OR WORTHWHILE. ALL IT MEANS IS THAT ONE'S LEARNING IS DIFFERENT THAN THAT OF OTHERS. THERE'S NOTHING TO BE EMBARASSED ABOUT. THERE'S NOTHING THAT MAKES YOUR DAUGHTER INFERIOR TO ANYONE ELSE. IF SHE'S AS SENSITIVE AS HER PARENT WHO POSTED ON THIS BLOG, SHE IS ABSOLUTELY SOMEONE I'D WANT AS A NEIGHBOR, FRIEND, FAMILY MEMBER OR COLLEAGUE. As difficult as it may seem right now, this will pass.
Thank you for your kind responses.What really mystifies me with this "true friend " is that this person once confided in me that she was once a victim in school of being picked on and ignored. One would think that a parent who experienced this as a student would have empathy and raise their own child with tolerance for other children. Instead they choose to let their children act like the children that they were picked on, ignored, and ostracized by. I know of several parents in plainview that also were victims of ridicule as children only to raise their children to do to children what was done to them. This I will never be able to understand.My only answer to this is that they must be very unhappy people who only find comfort in re-living their child the way they would of liked to through their children.Very sad. As I always tell my children when someone treats you less than equal you should move on and find other children to be friends with because they are not worth your time . Thank you again
ReplyDeleteParents who are former victims of bullying tolerating their children as the aggessors, this is a new one for me. Is it possible that because their kids are not reporting being hurt, they don't realize what's going on? That doesn't make it right. You'd think these parents would know better.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to think a little more about this one. Not sure what the answer is. If anyone reading this has any ideas, please share them with us.
Parents who were bullied can still bully people because they still have a need or desire to feel better than someone else. Even if that person is their "friend," not everyone is inclusive. Someone may be your friend but people use other people when it is convenient for them. Different people fulfill different needs. It would be nice to think everyone is inclusive, but it is not reality. People are selfish, do things to make them feel power and they put themselves and their needs before others. They are not always worried about how others may feel. They do what is good for them at that moment. Find new friends.
ReplyDeleteRead article @ bileever.blogspot.com for some possible solutions.
ReplyDeletePeople only want to better themselves and do what is good for themselves. It is a rarity to find someone to defend or stick up for someone else. Do people treat their friends' kids with the care they treat their own? Not all of us do. The "friend" who excluded the daughter cares about her own kid's social status, not about your kid's feelings. Maybe a pessimistic view but people always do what is good for them. Though we can preach antibullying strategies and tell our kids to "include" others, this is not reality except on Sesame Street where Big Bird makes sure Elmo is attentive to another muppet's feelings. Schools need to role play early on how not to hurt another's feelings and this needs to be PRACTICED all through the school years, whether it be in a s.s. class when talking about tyrannical rulers, class oppression or in literature class when characters are greedy or selfish, etc. Kids need to share their daily experiences as well.And then it is another hurdle to actually apply lessons to real life.
ReplyDeleteRecent article in NY TIMES...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/style/28bully.html?_r=1&hp
holding the parents accountable
ReplyDeleteI am thrilled there is a group of parents getting involved with the bullying issue.
I feel that the parents of these children need to be held accountable. They are not teaching their children to be kind and nice ..just to make sure they are in the "popular crowd" and leave others out. I for one don't feel the kids in those crowds even come up to the level of my children. My children are polite, friendly and kind. I don't even want my children around those kids. I wouldn't most likely be friends with the parent sof most of tthese children. I've seen parents be so rude as well as their children. The "popular " crowd usually as we have learned has no emotional IQ and when they get into life later on are not always more successful then the kids that were in the less popular crowd. So parents out there...if you would teach your children to be kind and considerate to all perhaps we would not have this problem. We have to make the school accountable to discipline children if they are abusiuve to teachers , and other kids at the school They should have priveledges taken away from them even sports. What happened to that lovely little boy at POB shouldn't happen to a dog. SHAME on you other parents of these children...for not teaching them to be kind and considerate. what good is being a great athlete or a good student if you aren't a good decent human being? Is your goal to raise rotten adults?
The "popular" kids in Plainview are usually the nasty kids. Mean =Popular in Plainview.
ReplyDeleteNot smart, attractive, kind....the meaner you are the more popular you are with WHO? THE MEAN KIDS. My son is levels above all these kids AND PARENTS. He saw a little 4th grader he knew and said hello and she snubbed him. the mother was embarressed. when we left he said goodbye. i said you shoujldn't have even bothered he said "im the bigger person' he's not even ten and already higher values, kinder feelings towards others and LEVELS WAY ABOVE what these mean parents are raising. what a joke. i don't want him NEAR THESE other kids. If i cathc my kids repeating their behaviors they will be punished.
Let's start to hold the families of the bullies also accountable for their behavior. Remember when a few years back a dentist was arrested in westchester for allowing children to drink in his home at a party he ran for them?
ReplyDeleteRemember how just a few years ago parents allowed their kids (and I knew many in plainview) to have fake IDS. Now if children are caught with them the parents can go to prison they are under age and it's a federal offense.
Noone has the right to verbally or physically abuse anyone in this school district. Let's give the rights back to the children and hold parents accountable for their children's actions if they have received countless complaints. In Europe children are mandated to take anger management courses and in some case parents themselves have to take parenting courses that are government mandates. Some of our states in the US require this too.
in my personal opinion i believe that the children marked as "bullies" probably have very little respect for anybody including adults as well as other kids and maybe even there own parent and don't care if they get in trouble. maybe even enjoy knowing that the people they don't care about are being made miserable by them. i feel it all depends on how they think. but always keep in mind their live at home may not be good and some of them can probably use some counseling. please reply even if you disagree i would like to hear some thoughts on this. thank you for your time
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