Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The New Superintendent.....":
Suzala, can you start a new thread for this one?
My child came
home from school today upset because upon dissatisfaction with another
child's math work, the teacher ripped the page out of the kid's
notebook, crumbled it up, threw it in the trash and made him do it over.
I knew I was only hearing one side of it so I asked a bunch of
questions to get the full story which confirmed for me that this teacher
really did this as was reported to me, not inconsistently with her
other disciplinary practices but I digress. I told my daughter that
unless it directly involves her, there really isn't anything I can do
about it but she did right telling me that this frightened her. Can I
get some parenting advice on this one? Did I tell her the right thing?
These are eight year olds we are talking about. I don't know the other
child's track record. I wasn't there. It just disturbs me that my own
child, who's usually so easy going, would have gotten so upset over
this.
I really don't know what to make of this one. All feeback is welcome.
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Would you treat your own child this way? Is that an effective way of reprimanding a misbehaving child? Is that an appropriate way of teaching a child to make an effort with his/her work (assuming the child wasn't making an effort?) Is that the way a teacher should inspire learning? If the answer is "No", then how about contacting the parents of the child that it happened to and let them know what your child witnessed. Other may disagree. But, if it were my child, I'd like to know that other parents would call me. Then the parent of the child can decide next steps.
ReplyDeleteTo the post on 12/20 8:33AM, thanks for your response. I thought about calling the other child's parents. I really don't know them but I agree if it were me, I'd also want to be informed. It's been my experience, sadly, that many people don't want the negatives brought to their attention even if it involves their own child. If their son came home and was fine, then they're fine. My telling them otherwise might result in their thinking I and my daughter are the crazy ones, not the teacher.
ReplyDeleteI've been watching this teacher for four months now. She regularly sends children to stand in the hallway as a punishment regardless of whether or not the preceding action was a disruption to the class. When she doesn't like a child's work, she grabs the pencil out of their hand and erases it herself. She publicly humiliates the kids. I cannot understand how this can go on day after day.
Tell the principal how your daughter reacted (and principal will also then know what is going on in her school). Let principal investigate the teacher's unprofessional actions. I can understand your daughter getting so upset. Witnessing that is horrible. Imagine how the kid felt. Awful. Let us know how this turns out.
ReplyDeleteC'mon - Everyone knows that ripping up and throwing out work is the best way to improve math skills, right? I heard it works for improving handwriting also!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, kids are sensitive to how their peers get treated. So even if this unusual strategy worked for the particular child in question, it's not appropriate to be done in public.
I've heard stories of elementary school teachers in our district throwing out snacks they didn't approve of. This upset other kids in the room who brought in approved snacks.
Also it's great that your child spoke to you about this rather than internalizing.
Thank you so much for the comments. My daughter was very upset when we discussed bringing this to the attention of the school. A few parents have taken similar concerns about this teacher to the administration. There's been some backlash against the children for it from what I've noticed so I'm wary of that.
ReplyDeleteThis teacher regularly sends kids to stand in the hallway as a punishment similar to the old fashioned "stand in the corner" routine. It could be as simple as a child forgetting to put the date on a paper or simply telling the teacher they don't understand the directions. Also, in the middle of teaching a lesson, she'll say to the class, "Just a minute" and then answer and talk on her cellphone while the kids sit and watch.
She may think she's managing her class but what she's actually doing is instilling fear in the children and modeling bullying and intimidation, certainly not sending the right message.
You owe it to all the students being deprived of a quality education to say something. This teacher sounds very unprofessional.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I want to say that the responses on this thread really indicate a supportive group of community members. Even though I don't know you all, I feel like you're really understanding my worries right now. Maybe I'm guilty of the "I hope someone else complains first so I don't have to take the risk" syndrome. I stand corrected. I should have addressed the matter within a day of it happening. There was no excuse.
ReplyDeleteThis experience has got me wondering about this teacher and her actions. What she does has all the ear markings of that old fashioned system of discipline where kids were made to stand in the corner, write "I will not talk in class" a hundred times and other similar tactics. She might be teaching in the way she was trained to. In her mind, she's doing her job, all in the spirit of strong classroom management. If she can maintain total control over her students, then and only then will she be able to teach with complete and total compliance from the kids and be able to demonstrate herself as a competent educator.
What she fails to understand is that these practices might elicit compliance for the short-term but in the long-run, they may do more damage to the children than anything else. Think about it, Mussolini had the trains running perfectly on time but not one Italian was comfortable or at ease in those railroad stations. I'm not suggesting this woman compares to Mussolini but you see the comparison. The teacher sets the climate in the classroom. What she's effectively doing is destroying their creativity, damaging their self-esteem and turning them off to learning because her class becomes more about how not to anger the teacher rather than how best to understand the curriculum.
Over the years, she probably has been appraised of other more appropriate methods. This is what works best for her so this is what she does. If a parent calls her on it, she'll either deny it or make up an excuse. In her mind, she's been teaching long enough, she truly views herself as untouchable. Fortunately, at least for me, this is the first time I've encountered this type of attitude among teachers in this district. Hopefully, this lady is the exception rather than the rule.
I welcome all ideas on this one whether you agree or disagree.
You state "I've been watching this teacher for four months now.". How have you been watching? Are you in the building? I hope that many of you are just as vocal with your doctors, lawyers, dentists....tell everyone exactly how to do their jobs.
ReplyDeleteMr. Rosenfeld, we know you regularly read this blog. I personally appreciate that you do very much so. Clearly you want to know the feelings of community members and perhaps bridge all the gaps. While your job is to protect the rights of all teachers in the district including this one, maybe you can clarify for us what disciplinary actions are appropriate for the staff and advise the teachers of which ones are not.
ReplyDeleteStop watching the parent and tell an administrator-if not the building principal then go up the chain of command and tell the superintendent. To NOT tell someone is the same as when our kids watch a kid being bullied and don't share it....the only way to end this is to be the brave one and do something. You would be thrilled if someone did this for your child. I would imagine you would feel relieved after doing this. You can of course, request that your name be kept out of it.
ReplyDeleteto the post at 7:02. Yes, I do talk to my doctors, dentists, etc. and I recommend everyone do that. You know your body the best, and it is in your best interest to discuss ANY treatment and have CONVERSE and QUESTION. If you don't, you're a fool. Have you ever read about the Holocaust? If you're paranoid and you're right.... Just because someone has a "title" doesn't make him superior, all-knowing, etc. Back to the parent: Has the parent spoken directly to the teacher? If parent doesn't want to speak to admin, she should speak to teacher. Let the teacher answer why she practices this way. Let the parent tell teacher how uncomfortable daughter feels in this environment. Backlash? Speak up and see what she says. You'd feel better and you'd have that teacher thinking that maybe, just maybe she goes too far since others in her class are uncomfortable with her practices. Speak up, you'll feel better. If other parents feel this way, you are all wrong for not conferencing w/ principal. Sitting and doing nothing--not an option. And don't give excuse that too much time has passed. It is, in fact, still on your mind.
ReplyDeleteTo the poster on December 23rd at 7:02PM,
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that what this teacher does is appropriate?
"Tell everyone exactly how to do their jobs"
ReplyDeleteOne cannot help but wonder if this obvious deflection of subject is perhaps an anonymous way for this teacher to be "defending" herself.
Do not make the mistake that I made a few years ago. My child was bullied by a teacher to which my child came home crying several times. I confronted the arrogant teacher with no success , talked to the principal , and had my child removed from the class. Still the teacher bullied my child in the hallway with the long stares and comments. I went to the super. He claimed he would look into it and never did. went to a board member and still nothing happened to the teacher who is known to bully children in her class every year. If I had known then what I know now , I would of filed an official complaint with the New York State Dept of Education.They have an official policy to handle complaints and force the school to do a formal investigation and get everything on the record. I still regret not going far enough because I know that this teacher is probably still bullying children in her class. One administrator even told me that the teacher was moved around from building to building because some principals do not want the problem teacher whom they can not get rid of. This is not teacher slamming either , this is what happened.
ReplyDeleteThe teacher in question here is an elementary teacher who's been in the same position for years, and loves telling people that. A state investigation has definitely crossed my mind. In the end, it would be very hard to prove and sadly, my child would then be labeled for the rest of her school career here in Plainview. I know it's the right thing to do. I'll have to give this some more thought.
ReplyDeleteIf this teacher is the one I'm thinking of, I heard about a group of parents in the district looking into filing a formal complaint with the state. If allegations are proven, this teacher could lose her pension. If not, at least the complaint has been recorded.
ReplyDeleteSomeone commented earlier that the teacher might be reading this. If so, the new year is about to begin. Let's hope she starts the year anew so no child will have to suffer in her classroom any more. Unlikely? Maybe but we should at least try to optimistic.
I love the sharing of misinformation. The teacher could lose her pension? Absolutely, not. Frank Tassone from Roslyn was convicted of multiple felonies and still collected his pension--in prison. Not an issue at all. Filing a complaint with NYS because a teacher ripped a page out of a book. GET OVER IT!! Please. Maybe teachers should start calling Child Protective Services and the FBI when a child reports they were denied dessert.
ReplyDeleteThe teacher in question is in the middle school
ReplyDeleteRipping the page out of the book is icing on the cake. The teacher regularly does other inappropriate things, not denying dessert. If you're so sure your actions are within reason, why not use your name on this blog? State publicly what you do. Surely you must be proud of your behavior.
ReplyDeleteThe teacher I'm talking about and possibly directly to is in the elementary school.
If you're convicted of a crime against children, collecting a pension is not as easy as you'd think. I must agree that the issue with Frank Tassone is disgusting.
ReplyDeleteI trust that all readers understand that I have a legal and ethical obligation to refrain from commenting, as I may be called on to defend and protect the teachers right to due process. That should not be taken to mean that I,or the PCT, condones unprofessional conduct. It simply means that when allegations are made, a teacher has a legal right to have them fairly investigated and adjudicated in accordance with the education law of New York.
ReplyDeleteTo the original poster. I wish you the courage to move forward and either tell the parent of the child or the administrator or both. It is good for all.. even your child, who will only learn to speak truth to power based on the example set by his/ her parent.
ReplyDeleteSo I finally got the guts to bring this matter to the attention of the administration. I was told that coming from such a young child, who was not the child directly involved in the incident, it is likely the story was misinterpreted. The only possible positive outcome here is if, and this is a big if, other parents step up and express dissatisfaction also. Otherwise, it's a child's word against an adult's. No question who will be taken seriously and who won't be.
ReplyDelete